As soon as i chime in on a thread about what happened to Aquila at my homebirth, inevitably i receive the same sentiments over and over from Crunchier-than-thou homebirth activists. things like these:
bcblondie wrote:
I'm sorry for your loss. But this is not a fair comparison. We all know that being in a carseat is 1000 times safer than not being in one. You can'T really compare the recklessness of not using a carseat, to homebirths.
All they are trying to say is that homebirthers HAVE made an informed choice. They reduced the risk of their baby needing emergency intervention simply by being at home, not having pitocin or an epidural. Being able to relax and not be confined to a bed with IV's and monitors. The labour is much more likely to go smoothly.
But yes. On the other hand. Sometimes things still go wrong. And if that's something you fear or couldn't live with, you should have a hospital birth.
But for me. If my baby had died at my homebirth, I would have STILL KNOWN that I made an informed choice. I would not regret my homebirth. And I would be quite mad at anyone who implied/said outright that I should.
Amber De Sosa Seber 5:26 am
Sadly, a hospital cannot guarantee or even increase the likelihood of a live mom or baby.
Lorna Doone 12:39 pm
I have never had a horrible birth anywhere EXCEPT a hospital (first time) and then two ridiculously simple, easy, rubber-ball-and-eyeball-injury-free births on my own.
And most normal, healthy, mentally stable, physically fit etc., women do NOT need to be sold a surgeon-attended medically and pharmaceutically assisted hospital birth.
LadyJennifer wrote:
As for the original post; babies and mothers die in hospitals too, often because of interventions rather than natural causes.
Also, it is important to take responsibility for your own birth, know the signs of complications like abruption, etc. Mothers are the only ones who really know what's going on in their own bodies (if they listen), and even the most knowledgeable and experienced hcp can make mistakes. The US has some of the highest maternal and neonatal mortality rates in the developed world - and some of the lowest homebirth rates. "
there are so many more "wonderful things" that have been said to me, but they always center on the same themes-
#1 - baby's die in the hospital too, you know!
yes, brilliant! where else do people dismiss a child's death by bringing up other children's deaths than in homebirth loss?
Hospitals are safer. Transporting takes much longer than you would think. I am not "anti-homebirth" because i want people to face the facts. Have a homebirth- fine with me! I also don't care if you want to turn your 8 month old forward facing in his car seat- BUT i DO want you to be aware of the risks. Of course it is your choice, but what kind of choice is one made with half the information?
Me telling my story does not limit your choices. You stifling my story or deleting it, or dismissing it limits everyone's choices, and pushes your agenda!
#2 Yours was a rare tragedy- homebirths are safer . If someone is healthy enough, strong enough, "crunchy" enough, and thinks positively (woo) than this (probably) won't wont happen to them!
OUCH .
SO which was i? Not healthy enough? Not Crunchy enough?
I know why woman gravitate to this response. Reading my story scares the piss out of them, and they need to do what is so very human, scramble around to figure out what i did wrong to prove to themselves that it could not happen to them.
Well, it could. If you understand that homebirth carries 3 times the risk of death to your unborn baby, then you are making an informed choice.
#3 Well your midwife was negligent.My midwife is well trained/ has great references/ answered all my questions well about what she would do in an emergency!
OK, granted- Faith Beltz was very negligent. but why/how was she negligent?
She was not well trained.she was trained under ATM's curriculum
The Texas Department of Health requires midwifery students to have a high school diploma or GED certificate, and current certification in Infant and Adult CPR.
Then, for ATM's curriculum one must read these books. my personal favorites are the two books on homeopathy. don't get me started there.
then the clinical requirements are as follows:
ATMMTP students must complete the following minimum clinical requirements:
1. 10 observations of births, 2 of which must be in an out-of-hospital setting
2. 20 births as an active participant
3. Functioning in the role of Primary Midwife under Supervision:
1. 20 births, including a minimum of the following Continuity of Care requirements:
* 10 births must be with women for whom the student has provided primary care during at least four prenatal visits, birth, newborn exam, and one postpartum exam
* 3 births must be with women for whom the student has provided primary care continuously under the supervision of one preceptor for each woman, beginning no later than 15 weeks GA and to include all prenatal care, birth, newborn exam and at least two postpartum exams at 36hrs.-6weeks (Continuous Continuity of Care)
A maximum of two transports as active participant and two as Primary Midwife under supervision may be included in the above 50 births
4. Functioning in the role of Primary Midwife under Supervision:
1. 20 initial physical exams and 20 histories
2. 75 prenatal exams
3. 20 newborn exams
4. 40 postpartum exams
so, lets compare that with a CNM's training and also an OB's:
CNM: They have gone through 4 years of nursing school plus an additional 2 years for their masters degree which earned them their CNM certification.
OB: goes to medical school and completes residency.
So, w\how knowledgeable is your midwife really?? Faith beltz failed to recognize two very obvious and major complications in my labor, Chorio and Abruption. And here is the kicker----
Faith was and still is an ATM preceptor-meaning she is a teacher for other midwives. this is the training the next generation of CPMs is receiving!
Also My midwife is regulated by a board comprised of her friends. Th ATM board is one in which Faith Beltz holds 3 seats. The Texas midwifery board (who grants licenses and regulates CPMs in Texas) has midwives sitting on its board , who out number all other members. All these midwives have sat or do sit on the ATM board with Faith, or are in high positions at ATM .
so, how do you know that your midwife is well regulated? what do you think will happen if she kills your baby? Does she carry malpractice insurance? If she is a CPM she does not.
and finally, Faith Beltz had all the right things to say . But when the shit hit the fan, she froze.
How are you so sure your midwife will make the right call?
In the hospital there is a TEAM of people caring for you. at home you are in ONE person's hands. Better be sure she is ready for anything that may go wrong!
and about your choices being limited----
sometimes the government regulates things to protect the consumer.like the
USDA and the FDA.
homebirth midwives need more training, more regulation, required ob backup relationships and the requirement to carry malpractice insurance And consumers need more information about homebirth-not just just Woo-filled fantasies.
How to tell if your boyfriend is losing interest
2 years ago
39 comments:
Oh, Liz. I am so sorry you have to listen to these nincompoops spew their idiocy back in your face, but I am also so impressed that you continue to tell your story in spite of them. I just KNOW it's getting through to some people, even though they may not be the more vocal ones.
Your story doesn't scare the piss out of me so much as makes me feel hollow inside as I feel real honest pain for you and don't understand how I came out of a home birth gone wrong with a living child, and you did not.
It illustrates how unforgivingly unfair birth is and can be, and how all the planning in the world won't make a difference if something goes wrong and a real medical professional isn't right there to fix it. Even then, it might not turn out, but as I said previously, it certainly ups the odds.
Also as I said previously, I think a carseat is a perfect analogy. Carseats do not offer 1000 times greater protection in a car crash as that poster claimed (are we surprised she doesn't know wth she is talking about?). In 2006 they saved just 425 lives according to the CDC. More children's lives are saved each year by 'unnesecareans' and 4x as many lives are saved by the 'back to sleep' program (and that's just newborns, the 425 lives is for all children under 5!).
If we use the most recent 2008 Wisconsin numbers home birth has a death rate of 2.5/1000.
According the cdc infant death from ALL accidents (not just car) was .22/1000 in 1990.
So before car seats were even widely IN USE the accident rate was 2.28/1000 LESS than the 2008 home birth rate. (didn't have time to find a more recent year than 1990)
Despite now banned cribs, dozens of product recalls, and a greater awareness for safety in vehicles, an infant was more than 10 times more likely to die in a home birth in 2008 than they were to die in ANY accident 20 years ago.
(and if you assume we're talking about a white population, which the home birth group is predominantly in the US, the accident rate was .18/1000 in 1990, making home birth even more dangerous)
And if you want to post that to the nitwits on facebook, be my guest. The CDC link with the accident stats is here: http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/PDF/wk/mm4209.pdf and you have the wis data already.
Reading those comments just makes my blood boil. I'm so glad you keep speaking up, because I know it does get through to some people.
You are so amazingly brave for continuing to speak out about your experience! Those people on the boards are rude, in my opinion (or very misinformed).
I'll admit, having a midwife in my home seemed like a "cool" idea...but when I got down to it, I really liked the safety of being in the hospital. I still had a CNM who took GREAT notes at all of my appointments (so I still got to do all of my calming techniques, music, lighting I liked, walking around the hall if I wanted, yoga ball, mirrors for the birth, etc...).
It bothers me that people say "you can't have the same experience...and all they want to do is make quick medical choices." That's bull. I still called all of the shots. I may have been in the throes of labor, but my delivery nurse let me do what I wanted.
So, while it may be "your own choices" at a homebirth... if you're working with a nice care group with a CNM, you can still have most of those choices spoken for and fought for...yet in a more safe environment, like the hospital.
Ok so what's the answer. We know that hospital births can be incredibly bad for women and babies. We know that many women have really terrible birth experiences because of the interventions and the out of control cesarean rates.
Maybe homebirth isn't the best option in the US the way the system is set up today. But what's the option? Birth centers?
I know that in other countries where doctors and midwives work together and homebirth for low-risk moms are the norm, the infant and maternal morbidity and mortality rates are very low. But how do we get there?
I don't think the answer is to make sure that women are so discouraged from home birth. I don't think the answer is 100% hospital birth either.
elena-i answered that question at the end of my post-
"home birth midwives need more training, more regulation, required ob backup relationships and the requirement to carry malpractice insurance "
and by more education i mean CNM requirements
I'm not sure that American CNM standards are necessarily what's needed. The Dutch, with have a 30% homebirth rate have 4 years of training to become primary care birth midwives. That's probably more practical and definitely more cost effective.
In the current system you will NEVER get OBs to voluntarily give up the power and the money they get now in order to back up home birth midwives. That's just not going to happen. If Obamacare is implimented and more OBs leave the field, midwifery might become more popular out of necessity. What that will look like, I don't know.
I'm not sure that more malpractice insurance is the answer - I'd like to see tort reform before I see that.
elena- i am sorry but i cant even begin to respond without saying something rude.
I think you are incredible. I love reading your blog. YOU - my dear- are getting the word out there - possibly saving some mothers and babies who should not attempt homebirth - like me. I have 4 children - 1 - c-section, a VBAC with twins (in a hospital, natural) and another VBAC, natural, in a hospital. I was 42 when I delivered the youngest. Subsequent to seeing Rikki Lake's movie - I pondered the idea of a homebirth - but - as a mother of advanced maternal age - and w/ a husband who said - No way - we chose a terrific OB. It was probably the best idea - since I bled so much immediately following the delivery. But - you know- I believe that movie did cause many women to lean toward the notion of homebirth - women - like me. Oh, Hollywood - not very intelligent.
I think that you should write a book. You are a wonderful and insightful woman.
I'm sorry to offend you Liz. Not exactly sure what I said that was offensive. I'm just trying to have a discussion about the state of birth in this country.
My birth resume -
hospital C-sec for very questionable and unnecessary reasons.
Hospital VBAC with CNMs
Homebirth with a DEM, more for financial reasons than anything else but a good experience.
Homebirth with MD.
Homebirth with transfer for cord prolapse resulting in emergency C-sec under general anesthetic. Baby with APGAR of 1.
Stillbirth at home- (known to be still several days before delivery)
Scheduled C-sec.
Also I was a doula for 4 homebirths and 1 hospital birth. The very first birth I ever witnessed besides my own was a shoulder dystocia with hospital transport and NICU stay for the newborn.
I'd like my daughters and future daughers-in-law to be able to just have healthy births for themselves and their babies without having to go into debt and without invasive medical procedures unless indicated. I totally see the benefits of homebirth and the benefits of hospital birth since I have had both kinds! I guess when it comes to birth I tend to be a Libertarian/Conservative i.e. lots of safe options available at reasonable costs to young parents.
Elena, your statement that the Netherlands, a country where about 30% of births are attended by midwives, is in any way a model to follow is flat out wrong.
The Netherlands has the highest perinatal mortality rate in all of Europe, 7.4/1000 and after Greece, the highest neonatal mortality rate.
In the Netherlands, high-risk pregnancies are handled through the hospital from the beginning, and low-risk births are preferentially handled by home birth with midwives. Babies from the high-risk pregnancies have a lower mortality rate. It doesn't get more conclusive than that.
The Netherlands has a socialized medicine system that has an inbuilt incentive to control costs. But the Dutch medical community is now looking at this model of care with great concern because of the high infant mortality rate there, and the data points to homebirth with midwives as the culprit.
Hi Gabriel,
I agree there is a lot NOT to like about the Netherlands - I certainly would never want to live there. I also agree that high risk women should be screened out of a homebirth setting. This study of planned homebirths in the Netherlands seems to support that. It's a rather large study as well.
I'm just saying I don't believe it should be homebirth only or hospital birth only- rather make both choices as mother and baby safe as possible while keeping a lid on the costs.
Liz, your comment about being in one person's hands (homebirth) versus a team of hands (hospital) really struck a huge chord with me and likely solidified my choice to not attempt another homebirth. My midwife at the homebirth of my second child was extremely skilled and extremely experienced. I believe she is an outstanding midwife. She was also going through some horrific things in her personal life that impacted her in such a way that she had NO business attending births. My baby was fine, but my homebirth was not a good experience. What I really wanted then (and now, when I think about it) was for someone to have said to my midwife, "You shouldn't be here. Go home, we'll take over from here." But there was no one, ya know? My point is that even the best, most skilled and practiced midwife is human and flawed and there is so little back up.. so little checks and balances, especially when it comes to a midwife practicing solo. And I live in a state with some of the most severe and prohibitive midwifery laws in existence. Anyway, its important that you continue to share your story. You should be proud.
Elena, while the de Jonge, et. al. 2009 study you cited does conclude comparable perinatal mortality rates at home versus the hospital, it does not compare perinatal mortality rates for Dutch midwives vs. Dutch obstetricians. This study from the British Medical Journal does make such a comparison, and it reveals Dutch midwives to have unacceptable perinatal mortality rates whether delivering at home or the hospital. It states that women whose delivery was considered low risk and whose labor started under supervision of a midwife had a 2.33 times greater risk of perinatal mortality than women whose labor was considered high risk and whose labor started in the care of an obstetrician.
2.33 times higher mortality is very big considering you are comparing low risk deliveries to high risk deliveries.
So why did the cohort study you cited show approximately similar overall mortality rates? Infants of women who started labor in the care of a midwife but were transferred to the care of an obstetrician had 3.66 times higher perinatal mortality rate than those whose mothers started labor in the care of an obstetrician. And all those extra deaths are counted in the hospital column in the study you cited. All these unnecessary extra deaths, but they go in both columns, so midwives don't look so bad, relatively speaking. Until you compare them with a comparable country that doesn't use this system.
The Erasmus Medical Center does this, comparing them to Flanders. They have 50% more perinatal deaths than they should when compared to Flanders.
People should be able to choose home or hospital birth, but they need to understand that the preponderance of scientific evidence places the relative risk of their baby dying at about 3 times if they begin delivery at home, all things being equal. I consider intentially mis-educating the public to the contrary once you have been shown the evidence to be malicious, and hope that now that you have been shown the evidence you will tell everyone that you support their right to home birth, but oh by the way, triple the rate of infant death. You will have the honesty to do this in the future, yes?
I had wanted to be on a friendly/ exchange of information conversation. Clearly that's not going to be that way here so I'll bow out.
I'll point out Gabriel that despite your facts about Finland, it still has a better infant mortality rate than the US! and the US has a much higher hospital delivery rate.
What I would tell a woman that asked me, is that birth is a risk and the best way you can prepare for it is to study everything and know your options, because if you don't know what your choices are, you don't have any. There are benefits and risks with each choice and those have to be weighed. I did that with my planned home birth. I did it with my scheduled C-section.
I don't agree with wearing rosy glasses and looking at home birth as the panacea of experiences, but I think it's a mistake to think a hospital birth means everything will always be okay.
Moderation in all things.
ahh the flouce....
i think our discussion is quite friendly, and full of those pesky facts...
Elena,
You were fortunate to get through your homebirth - since you and your baby are alive. Thank God and Please - let's just leave it at that. Now - please - go and hug yourself and your baby.
Liz, telling me you cannot respond without being rude is not friendly. Suggesting that I have somehow intentionally been mis-educating anyone isn't very nice either. Nor is your suggestion that I ignore "facts."
My oldest child is 21. My youngest is 5. I've had four other livebirths and a stillbirth in between. That's two decades of reading and following the trends, literature and studies on birth. This ain't my first time to the rodeo!
Ironically I agree with many of your points. Your hostility is baffling.
Actually Anne, I had four homebirth experiences.
Two went very well.
The third was a cord prolapse with a transfer to the hospital with an emergency C-section and a baby with an APGAR score of 1.
The fourth was the stillbirth of a son eight years ago.
I've been on both sides of the coin.
Liz,
I am so sorry that your have to listen to this bull - Elena : "moderation ?" I would say - insanity.
Keep talking - Liz ! You are awesome !
Elena,
I am sorry - I just cannot imagine how anyone would choose to continue to support homebirth if they have had a frightening experience - like you have had. That has been awful for you. Especially - a VBAC ? Homebirth during a VBAC ? What if you ruptured ? Holy crap. I guess that I just do not understand. I have had beautiful natural births in hospitals. Maybe - I have just seen too much - the "tip of the iceberg" - working in Level 1 Trauma Centers - in the NICU. Getting through natural VBACS in a hospital has been - enough for me -
i am sorry you are seeing me as hostile.
that is not my intention. that is exactly why i chose not to respond right away or try to debate you-i did not want to be a b$#@#.
you asked what i thought should be done with homebirth. i said , more training, more regulation, OB backup and malpractice insurance.
you told me in a nutshell why all my ideas were wrong.
i simply did not want to argue with you, knowing at some point you would just say something to the tune of "im leaving this discussion now that i am being out-site-ed" -something commonly referred to as "flouncing out". other people did however take the bait and debate you. when someone was out-site-ing you, you left the conversation- hence the "those pesky facts' comment. if you have better facts, show them! i am not being hostile. but this whole whole post is about my struggle to tell my story and how everyone in the "natural birth" community wants to shove homebirth lies back down my throat. i am not buying it. Regulation does not equal loss of choice. I never said homebirth should be illegal. just that the state it is in is horribly unsafe, and unprotective of the consumer.
i hope you stick around my blog long enough to read the transcribed midwifery review board meeting i will be posting soon. maybe this will hep you to see what i am complaining about.
Well obviously I haven't left the conversation, but I felt that maybe I should because Gabriel's tone was a little condescending and slightly insulting. I didn't suggest that I might bow out until after his remark.
I am sorry that you thought I was saying that you were "wrong." I didn't say that and I wasn't even thinking that. I was just hoping to have more discussion on it so I presented some problems that stand in the way of your suggestions.
For example, I'm all for midwives getting more training. I'm not necessarily in favor of the 4-years of college and then grad-school model mainly because of the high costs and student debt. That was maybe worth discussion. Maybe the Dutch model of training isn't the answer. That's worth discussion maybe. (And I did know some wonderful CNMs - but they weren't able to do homebirths because there was no backup).
I'm not a "homebirth only" advocate. But likewise I'm not a hospital birth only advocate either and I did have a terrible experience in the hospital after my first birth that made me put off having another pregnancy for three years. In retrospect now, I am certain that I had some degree of post traumatic stress disorder because of my treatment there.
Regulation doesn't have to equal loss - but it might. A simple change in ACOG's position a few years ago meant that many women lost the right to have a VBAC at the hospital of their choice.
Anyway, I have been reading your blog and I will keep reading. It is my firm belief that women can do more to change the world when we try to support and understand each other when it comes to birth and children. And as an older mom, I really want to protect the next generation from the things we went through! Thanks for your reply.
I have had a hard time watching all of this unfold. I have tried and tried to get my mind around why conversation designed to explore both sides of the subject keep getting torn down the second anyone starts discussing anything that doesn't paint home birth in the most pristine and idealistic view possible.
Isn't the goal better treatment and outcomes for mothers and their babies? Why all the fear from the NBC for honest debate and good solid questions?
During my 6th pregnancy I discovered I was pregnant with twins. I was horrified to discover that my CNM, that practices with an OB, wanted to induce labor at 36 weeks. I sought advice from the NCB community and over and over again I was told to try for a homebirth, even a UC! This with me having a past history of GD, living 1 hour from the closest birthing hospital and 2 hours from the closest hospital with a NICU.
I want to believe that a TRUE best practice plan will develop and will be implemented in this country before my own daughters are old enough to be having children but with so much unrealistic dogma circulating around I am afraid that we may still be many years away from the majority ever taking us seriously.
Keep shouting it to the rooftops Liz! People have got to learn that showing only one side of the debate and skewing data is wrong no matter which side you stand on.
Truly, unless someone has lived this nightmare, they cannot understand. We thought we were so educated and our midwives were so wonderful/trained/educated. In the end they dropped the ball and we ended up with dead babies and little to no recourse. Elana, honey, pull that stick out of your ass.Homebirth increases the risk of death, death. Your child dying isn't worth an experience. Getting that child out alive and having it survive is what the experience is all about, not how it happens. We had our chance to be born and now it's time to put ourselves aside so our babies can be born safely. I do actually agree with Liz on the requirements that should be necessary for a midwife. She should be a CNM who carries insurance and works with Dr's. A woman who wakes up and decides she wants to be a midwife today shouldn't be allowed to and shouldn't have support! If you aren't willing to go through the years of schooling and training, then you are obviously not wanting it to be a career, maybe a hobby.
Elena, I certainly didn't intend to be condescending or insulting. There are two things I need to go back over to make sure we are on the same page.
First, I'm not sure where you got Finland from, but we were discussing the Netherlands. Their perinatal mortality rate is worse than the U.S. Theirs in 2006 was over 9 in 1000, ours about 5 in 1000.
Second, I never meant to impugn you with an accusation that you had ever lied to anybody about home birth. What I said was that from this point forward, now that you have been presented with the unimpeachable facts, if you tell anybody that home birth vs. hospital birth carries comparable risk of infant demise, then that will be lying.
What you said that I do strongly agree with is that good medical care costs too much in this country.
It's a bit of a history lesson, but I'd point out that in old New York, one used to have to pay for fire service. They didn't service many residences, and it was terribly expensive. Firemen would even get into turf wars and actually come to blows while fires raged. We've long since abandoned the invisible hand of the free market when it comes to fire departments, but as you said, Finland puts us to shame when it comes to infant mortality. As does Sweden, as does the U.K., as does all those nations who long since instituted their versions of Obamacare. Our numbers for infant mortality in this country are bad because of the people in this country who can't afford proper medical care.
Or better yet, those who choose not to get proper medical care.
Elena, I can't believe you would support sub par care for women from providers (CPMs) that is not tolerated in any other first world nation because going to school and becoming educated is expensive and hard.
That is mind bogglingly absurd. Women deserve proper maternity care provided by highly educated, committed individuals that make medical practice their career complete with proper accountability and insurance, not some lady that decided to take an internet course on midwifery and now fancies herself a medical professional.
You may not think women and babies are worth the extra education, time, effort, and money, but I certainly do.
A couple of points.
1. The CIA ranks 224 countries in infant mortality from worst to best. The Netherlands ranks 194 mortality rate at 4.66/1000. The US is at 178 with 6.14/1000. Angola is #1 with 178.13/1000 and Monoco with 1.78/1000 at #224.
2. I actually dislike the entire educational system as it is set up now because I think it is morally wrong put young people out in the working world with staggering debt from student loans. I think the cost of education as well as health care are both too high.
What I have in mind is more like paramedic or the hospital nursing school training with classroom and clinical training.
3. I agree that the health of the baby and the mother is paramount. I do not agree that the mother is just a baby pod and that her perceptions and experiences of birth are not important. All birthing women deserve to be listened too and given enough information to make truly informed consent. They shouldn't be just shuffled through the pre-natal conveyor belt, or given interventions simply because they are "routine" or treated as simply a vagina with a uterus waiting to pop. There's a reason the homebirth women you encouter are so anti-hospital birth. And just as you don't like being told how safe homebirth in the face of such tragedy, they don't want to hear that what only matters is getting a healthy baby no matter what. Both are hurtful and demeaning.
4. I don't think socialism is the way to go but i think that discussion is for another time.
Elena,
Infant mortality measures deaths from birth up until 1 year old. So, even though the USA does not have a very good infant mortality rate, it's not the proper measure of the care that pregnant women receive. A better measure is perinatal mortality, which is what Gabriel was talking about. It measures deaths from 22 weeks gestation up until 28 days after birth*. There's also neonatal mortality, which measures from birth until 28 days of age.
*I may be wrong about the actual time frame captured by perinatal/neonatal mortality. Anyone know for sure?
bbg- copied from wiipedia
" * Perinatal mortality only includes deaths between the foetal viability (22 weeks gestation) and the end of the 7th day after delivery.
* Neonatal mortality only includes deaths in the first 28 days of life.
* Postneonatal mortality only includes deaths after 28 days of life but before one year.
* Child mortality includes deaths within the first five years after birth.
"
dr amy did a great piece on comparisons of data from inductions and perinatal death rates here=
http://skepticalob.blogspot.com/2010/09/induction-is-rising-and-birth-weight-is.html
I just don't get anyone that says CPMs do not need more training. Even if they still choose to train outside the conventional medical system, why not raise the bar a bit?
Why not make CPMs take a class like, oh maybe, Human Physiology? Human Anatomy? Microbiology? Pathology? Pharmacology? (since nearly all of them carry around Pitocin and antibiotics)
I mean seriously, who is lobbying for all the crap coursework? We all know birth can be a spiritual experience, but I doubt that anyone needs to write papers on the subject rather than learning some actual science.
Liz,
I don't know how you do it, Im just glad that you do. Ever since I "met" you on Skep OB, Ive been impressed by your strength.
As for Elana and others like her, I cannot imagine the chutzpah of ANYONE coming here to defend HB. If thats your thing, do it elsewhere. Doing it here shows that you are ignorant of the facts and didn't read this blog too well, or are just stubborn and rude. Neither of these things bode well for you.
And Elana, Gabriel is right, you NOW have the facts, so if you say otherwise you will be a liar. Your talk about Obs and hospital care is untrue and not helpful. Sure, we would all like it if all births had providers that were both competent and caring, but in the real world I will be happy with competent care. That my Ob and LD staff was so very wonderful was icing on the cake, but not needed. CS is NOT out of control, that rate includes all the repeats as well, the rates for the first CS arent that high. Plus, CS SAVES LIVES- when rates drop, deaths increase. do you want YOUR kid to be the one that dies to lower the rate??? I don't know what you've been reading for 15 years, but it hasn't been the facts. try the blog Skeptical OB, you might learn something.
And yeah, College could be free or cheaper, but it's not, and it IS the best way to train people right now. If you know of a better, cheaper system, get out there and make it happen.
Liz, and Gabe, keep up the good work!
Best,
staceyjw
My homebirth was intense and nothing at all like the romantic version of a gentle waterbirth. My midwife is a friend with whom I connected spiritually when I first met her and I'm thrilled that I returned to Houston and had her deliver my son. She has 19 yrs experience as a midwife, not sure the level of her accredited education, except that she is also a licensed EMT. At one point, she suggested we transfer for c-section due to his head size and my small frame, plus he was turned slightly. I did not enjoy the idea or the fears of the hospital that came to mind but I tried to soothe myself with my trust in God and with my midwife who would be with me and advocate for my choices (no vaccines and no circumcism). Well, after the walk from the tub to the birth stool, where she checked me again, my baby's head shifted slightly and since our vitals were both strong, my midwife suggested we try a little longer. I had actually given up hope for my homebirth, but tried with all my might, trusting and following my midwife, as I prayed, as my mother and two daughters in the room prayed and as I learned later from my mother, my midwife was also praying. Izak was delivered at home where I felt safe and grateful not to be in the hospital. I do not feel that I could protect myself or my baby from interventions I feel are unnecessary. I wish higher education allowed me to trust more... I wish I wasn't so aware of how a lot of Medical Deities operate, out of greed. - Hopefully this is changing and it remains a figment of my imagination.
I don't know the answer. I pray for healthy mamas and healthy babies.
Cynthia all you have displayed here is that you are lucky, and that for all your higher education is worth it hasn't taught you very much about science or medicine.
I don't think I expressed myself as well as I could have in this comment section. I actually agree with quite a bit. I wrote my thoughts here, if you are interested.
Not only is the negligent MW FAITH BELTZ still practicing, she is in an adorable new You Tube video, showing how wonderful HB is and how great her MW practice treats Moms. its all about love, according to the video- except if she kills your baby.....
Nope, its not a joke, I wish it was. You can find it by searching home birth, but the title is "Home Birth with Austin Midwife" and is posted by Faith herself.
I will be commenting on it, but Im sure it will be deleted. I hate to get it more hits, but it deserves comments.
I'm so sorry that she is still out there, and Im even more sorry for the idiots that say such rude things to you.
staceyjw
I'm so sorry for your loss. Nothing can take away that pain and people arguing with you doesn't make it any easier. My friend had a stillbirth. She got involved in a local group for moms who had lost babies. I hope there is something like that by you.
I agree with your requirements. My midwife was a CNM and I saw a back up OB while pregnant, plus she has an RN with her at the birth so there is more than 1 person monitoring you. My hope is that everyone has such great care at home or in the hospital. My care when I had my hospital birth was lacking and while in the end my daughter was healthy, she was born blue and wasn't breathing right away, though her cord had been cut immediately so she went without oxygen for a while. I was ignored for hours while in labor (even my doctor seemed annoyed that the nurse ignored me, but he had many laboring moms to attend to so he couldn't focus his attention on just one...) and the internal monitor didn't even work. And a friend lost a baby while seeing an OB. Her doctor brushed her off and told her everything was fine, but the baby died shortly after.
This should not be an argument of where, but rather the competence in care. Stop arguing with each other and lets show our support.
Post a Comment